The Labour peer Thangam Debbonaire has clashed with Reform UK’s Sarah Pochin at the Makerfield byelection count, asking the MP: “You don’t like being on television with brown people, do you Sarah?”
The row erupted during a testy interview on Sky News that included an exchange about the £5m personal gift that Nigel Farage accepted from the Thailand-based crypto billionaire Christopher Harborne in the months before he stood as an MP in the 2024 general election. The gift, first revealed by the Guardian, is under investigation by the parliamentary standards commissioner, who will examine whether or not it ought to have been declared.
Pochin, the MP for Runcorn and Helsby, defended Farage, saying: “In terms of the £5m, Nigel received that as a gift before he was in politics, so he doesn’t need to declare it … What I will say is that Nigel has had his security taken away by the Labour government, which is spiteful. He’s a politician and he’s a target and now he has to pay for his own security.”
Debbonaire, who tried to interject several times, responded: “He doesn’t. Parliament provides security as you very well know … You have been interrupting me all night, Sarah, and now you’re just talking rubbish.”
Farage has changed his story over the reasons for receiving the gift. At first he said it was to pay for personal security for his lifetime. As he faced questions about this explanation, Farage changed tack, saying he considered it a reward from Harborne for having campaigned for Brexit.
Parliamentary rules state that any benefits should be declared for the 12 months before taking up office as an MP, depending on whether it was for political or personal purposes. The rules state: “If there is any doubt, the benefit should be registered.”
The pair continued to speak over each other during the live interview until Pochin appeared to mock Debbonaire, a former Labour MP for Bristol West, for losing her seat to the Greens in the 2024 general election. Debbonaire responded: “And you don’t like being on television with brown people, do you, Sarah? You’ve said that already.”
Pochin replied saying “that’s outrageous” to which Debbonaire responded: “Do you want me to find the quote of you saying you don’t like seeing brown people on TV? Do you want me to find it for you, or was that not you? Was that some other Sarah Pochin?”
Debbonaire appeared to be referencing comments made by Pochin on TalkTV last October in which the Reform MP said: “It drives me mad when I see adverts full of black people, full of Asian people.”
Pochin had been responding to a viewer who complained about the demographics of advertising. She said the viewer was “absolutely right”, adding: “It doesn’t reflect our society”, and “your average white person, average white family is … not represented any more”.
Debbonaire and Pochin also clashed over a video that the Reform MP posted on X in which she urged the England team to “keep winning” to stop domestic violence escalating.
She had been criticised for not explicitly condemning the abusers and instead suggesting it was somehow the England football team’s responsibility to prevent women being attacked.
Pochin defended the video on Sky News, saying she was making a link between teams losing, and increased incidents of domestic violence.
But Debbonaire accused her of not standing up for women. As the discussion went further downhill, she added: “Are you really only saying the only danger to women is people who come from other countries? … You keep smiling when we are talking about violence against women and girls.”
Debbonaire appeared exasperated during the interview, at times walking away from the camera, holding her head in her hands and saying: “Just let her talk, there’s no point … Oh my God.”
On Friday, Debbonaire told the Guardian that she stood by her comments and that she went into the interview prepared to challenge Pochin on her views.
She said: “I am prepared to call out anybody who is espousing dangerous and prejudicial beliefs because brown people are frightened. Last week there was effectively a pogrom in the United Kingdom in which people were burned out of their homes beause of the colour of their skin. I will stand up to anyone who stirs up hate and says things that are either discriminatory or untrue that enable other people to go out and be violent.”
More politicians needed to be prepared to challenge Reform, Debbonaire said.
She said: “These people are public figures and people listen to them and they have a responsibility for what they say and the consequence of what they say, the consequences of demonising black and brown people. I am done appeasing them.”
The Guardian has contacted Reform UK for comment.
